Gardeners Chat-Shed FORUM

Get On Your "HOBBY HORSE" => Climate Change => : Big Gee January 22, 2017, 02:53:40 PM

: Not for Greens
: Big Gee January 22, 2017, 02:53:40 PM
Worth a quarter of an hour of your time to listen to this - apologies to all "Greens"
: Re: Not for Greens
: Poppa Tommo January 29, 2017, 07:09:46 AM
Interesting enough and quite clever but some arguments only based on half truths. Add some humour to hook the audience and away you go. Reminds me of the twin idiots Johnson and Farage. Sure the bloke presents some interesting facts trying to highlight hipporacy and self interest. Self interest groups and con men occur at every level in every society but my interest is in what is HE trying to sell us.

Even the most altruistic 'environmentally caring' groups are populated by people who will make flawed decisions and take dangerous and stupidly (un) 'heroic actions'. Green peace don't always get it right but I'd rather have them there to remind us of some of our place in the global measure.

So. Don't believe everything this chap is trying to sell you. Here is just one challenge to his 'embedded energy' argument about solar energy. Take a look at the cost and residual fallout of building ONE NUCLEAR POWER PLANT against the quantity of solar panels you could make ( let alone the ongoing maintenance/disposal of nuclear waste ). Plus how long will fossil fuels last ( the sun will never run out as long as humans inhabit this planet).  I'll leave it at that.

A more recent study by researchers Fromm the Netherlands and the USA (Fthenakis, Kim and Alsema, 2008) (, which analyses PV module production processes based on data from 2004-2006. They find that it takes 250kWh of electricity to produce 1m2 of crystalline silicon PV panel. Under typical UK conditions, 1m2 of PV panel will produce around 100kWh electricity per year, so it will take around 2.5 years to "pay back" the energy cost of the panel.
PV panels have an expected life of least 25-30 years ( (see How long do PV panels last? (, so even under UK conditions a PV panel will, over its lifespan, produce many times more energy than was required to manufacture the panel.
Calculating carbon payback times introduces additional variables, especially the "carbon cost" of the electricity production replaced/avoided by the PV system: Carbon payback times are shorter in countries where electricity is primarily produced using coal power stations, and longer in countries where
grid electricity is already produced by low-carbon technologies......"
: Re: Not for Greens
: Big Gee January 29, 2017, 12:27:47 PM
I don't think you can compare prof. Ian Pilmer with Farrage or Johnson Tommo!

I believe he makes a lot of sense. Whilst I'm an avid protester against using depletable resources (coal, oil, gas etc.), I'm an enviromentalist and conservationist, I also happen to think that the man-made climate change scare IS a scam. Climate change is here, has been here and will continue to be here for as long as the earth is in existence. What infuriates me is the 'Chicken Licken' mentality that has been generated and propagated by the elites. The poor guy in the street, who believes all this nonsense is quaking in his boots. At the root of it is the evil called money, plain & simple. It's the guy quaking in his boots that has to dip in his pocket to pay for the scam, tax money for 'renewables' subsidies (carbon tax etc.). As usual, the tool used to get what the elites want is fear, fear of terrorism, fear of global warming and it's effects, fear of nuclear war, and it goes on. A fearful population is a malleable one, who allows those in power to take away all their basic rights and freedoms.

As for the 'Greens', well meaning as many of them are, they are very deluded and sadly just as manipulated through fear as the rest of the population, without realising it. They are dancing to the fiddle of the elites - without even seeing it!
: Re: Not for Greens
: Poppa Tommo January 30, 2017, 08:25:48 AM
Yes, I agree with much of what you say, you know that, but nothing ruins an argument more than inaccurate 'facts'.

: Re: Not for Greens
: Big Gee January 30, 2017, 11:40:50 AM
Yes, I agree with much of what you say, you know that, but nothing ruins an argument more than inaccurate 'facts'.

You've just hit the nail on it's head Tommo! "nothing ruins an argument more than inaccurate 'facts'". Hence the amazingly deplorable actions of the East Anglia University that triggered the 'climategate' furore. Remember it? They were caught red handedly falsifying and massaging data in order to bolster up the 'man induced' climate change scam. We only heard about it thanks to some hacked e-mails, otherwise we would be blissfully unaware of what was going on. THEN the mainstream media tried to cover it up because it would explode the credibility of those who place themselves on the 'pedestal of experts'. A classic case of the political elites working hand in hand with dodgy scientists. More info HERE (

: Re: Not for Greens
: Poppa Tommo January 30, 2017, 10:51:23 PM

 [size=78%]Yes I remember it well, and it's debunking.[/size]

Healthy skepticism is my watchword...not withstanding that, I hear the worms champing at the bit...soon there won't be a can big enough to keep them at in.
: Re: Not for Greens
: Big Gee January 30, 2017, 11:01:35 PM
 CW ;-)