Author Topic: Look What Could Come After this Law  (Read 476 times)

Offline squirrel

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Look What Could Come After this Law
« on: January 14, 2014, 12:32:35 AM »
I will be putting this post on the hobby horse too as I think it crosses both barriers

http://action.sumofus.org/a/brazil-terminator-seeds/4/2/?sub=fb
squirrels are often out their trees but never short of nuts.

Offline Big Gee

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Re: Look What Could Come After this Law
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2014, 01:48:30 AM »
It proves that it's a global move doesn't it? The same old suspect Monsanto & Bayer.

It's obviously a co-ordinated attack designed to implement these policies not just on one continent like Europe but across the world. This one is more worrying than the proposed EU seed legislation.

Where will it end?  spf:-(
 

Offline galina

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Re: Look What Could Come After this Law
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2014, 08:29:26 AM »
Another signature added. 

Actually, this one does not frighten me so much, because these suicide seeds were GMOs in the first place!!!  And they deserve to be wiped from the face of the earth!  That they contaminate home saved OP seeds is a problem though but more benign than other GMO contamination, which is not detectable.  Not all saved seeds will terminate.  Those that do were crossed anyway.

If GM yields really were so much better and farmers would like to save seed material from their GM seeds, that would indeed make sure that they cannot.  But do farmers save GM seeds anyway?

The other question is 'why would these organisations make terminator seeds at all' (apart from the financial aspect).  Are their gene splicing techniques actually dubious or dangerous, ie crossing with other related plants must be prevented at all cost to save the wider environment?

Offline Big Gee

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Re: Look What Could Come After this Law
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2014, 01:32:16 PM »
In some countries - especially the poor ones, they do save their own seeds because of the cost of buying seeds in every year. That's why in some famine hit countries (in Africa as an example), the problem was twofold because growers would usually put seeds to one side for sowing the following year. Because the crops were so poor they used all their seeds up for food, and when the following year came they had no seeds to sow and no income to buy any. It becomes a vicious circle.

The end game for these greedy global seed suppliers is to tie everyone in to buy their seeds. The easiest way to do that is to get growers roped into 'suicide' seeds that HAVE to be bought in. It's obvious what they're aiming for. In Europe - which is less GM friendly the game is to isolate seed suppliers by making it illegal to save your own unless you're registered. It's quite obvious what the game is.

It's a disaster waiting in the wings. Politicians are too stupid, don't understand or just don't care. The Monsanto & Bayers of this world just want money at any cost to feed their greed & to satisfy their share-holders. A real nightmare that is getting out of control.
 

Offline squirrel

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Re: Look What Could Come After this Law
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2014, 11:53:53 PM »
Another signature added. 

Actually, this one does not frighten me so much, because these suicide seeds were GMOs in the first place!!!  And they deserve to be wiped from the face of the earth!  That they contaminate home saved OP seeds is a problem though but more benign than other GMO contamination, which is not detectable.  Not all saved seeds will terminate.  Those that do were crossed anyway.

If GM yields really were so much better and farmers would like to save seed material from their GM seeds, that would indeed make sure that they cannot.  But do farmers save GM seeds anyway?

The other question is 'why would these organisations make terminator seeds at all' (apart from the financial aspect).  Are their gene splicing techniques actually dubious or dangerous, ie crossing with other related plants must be prevented at all cost to save the wider environment?

Sorry galina but I wonder if you are missing the wider implications of this.

Monsanto, Bayer et al, start in one part of the world, to prevent the saving of open pollinated seeds by making it illegal to sow, grow, sell, trade or give any plant without a certificate. (forget the problems of policing that for the moment) This would mean that we have to buy most of our seeds from these companies no matter whose name is one the label as many smaller producers could not get those certificates because of either cost or rules and conditions that safeguard the interest of the bigger comapnies.

In another part of the world where it would be even harder to get people to follow that sort of law, they persuade governments to force farmers into sowing crops which will not produce any future viable seeds.

Add to that the possibility if not probability that the even more primitive places where they usually trial these things first to prevent uproar, would be added to this equation and what are you left with.

A few companies monopolising the seed market because they end up with a global stranglehold on agriculture and horticulture. In the end you can't save seeds because the only seeds you can buy are seeds that will not produce viable seeds. Also you end up having no choice but to eat the produce along with whatever it is that prevents that seed from behaving naturally. Your choice of what you eat, whether home grown or shop bought will be dictated my these companies.

This is, if they get away with it, the very same principals used in genocide with the difference being that it is aimed at nature which will reach many more species than just us humans.

All this I can see at a glance without any deeper thought or knowledge about what the actual wider reaching consequences could possibly be.

I am very worried as is everyone else I have spoken to about it.
Oh Lord! This is really one topic I would dearly love to be wrong about, but I really do have some very bad vibes about this.
 Yet so many people are not even aware of the proposed law for us let alone what's going on in Brazil and goodness knows where else or even what other part of the scheme is going on somewhere else that we don't yet know about.
squirrels are often out their trees but never short of nuts.

Offline Big Gee

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Re: Look What Could Come After this Law
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2014, 12:48:26 AM »
You've saved me a bit of time writing that squirrel - because I agree with every word & don't have to say it myself! You've probably conveyed it far more eloquently than I ever could anyway!  CThUpD:-)
 

Offline galina

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Re: Look What Could Come After this Law
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2014, 09:35:52 AM »
Squirrel,  I do get it just fine, but it doesn't frighten me as much as GM does.  GM can be 'sneaked in '  and continue for many generations more, cross with related wild plants, and we don't know how that will work out in years to come.   Terminator seeds 'terminate' themselves and those they have crossed with.

These companies can only thrive on greed - their own and the greed of those countries and farmers who believe the propaganda of higher yields.  But they can't fool all of us all of the time! 

Most of us in the survey who save seeds said they would break the law anyway and grow our saved seeds and give them to others.  Here, they would need to make all beans a different colour to even know whether we are growing from terminator seeds or not.  A few others said that they would dodge legislation.  Growing one that looks just like one of the 'terminator' ones would be a good working 'dodge'.  All that profit would be gone in a flash if they had to test every allotment site and every garden.  Farmer's greed is harder to deal with, but since the average age of farmers is close to pension age and in the UK we more and more import and insist on proper labelling, the consumers ultimately dictate what seeds are grown. 

And there is political people power.  Why do you think we don't have GM yet - people power and protests in the UK.  Remember the 'everlasting' flavr-savr (not sure of the spelling) genetically modified tomato that the supermarket tried to import and stock about 15 years ago.  Nobody bought them!  Not a viable product in the UK!  Governments are not going to be able to do in conjunction with big industry just whatever they want to do.  People protest (see the current EU seed law protests).  When it is as important as this, more people will protest more.  We insist on food labelling (even in the USA they are pushing for labelling), because we do not want GMOs 'sneaking in'.  I don't know what happens in Brazil politically, but I do not believe that these practices will get a permanent hold.  Neither will they extend to many food products.  There just isn't the money in if for these companies, apart from a few crops.  Remember headlines only a few months ago - Monsanto retreats from Europe because there isn't a profit in it for them!There was the GM cotton in India - the bad effects on growers(destitution, many suicides) were well publicised and the government reversed their positive attitude.  Farmers have gone back to traditional varieties.  Just a couple of years ago, urgently needed food aid from the USA was rejected, because it would be GM?  I forget which campaign it was, could have been the New Year's Tsunami aftermath.  But it was widely reported in the press.  The temporary US governor in Irak decided that all seeds had to be bought from approved US sources (mostly GM), when they were in charge.  Look what happened there - farmers did not buy them and the poppy industry flourished and cannot be controlled by anybody. Even worse in Afghanistan.  That these companies will  try peddling terminator seeds, and that on occasion they will succeed with one or other government for a huge bribe, may well be the case.  That they will succeed globally, for most of what we eat, or for any length of time, I do not believe.
 
Anyway, by no means all of our food comes from seed.  Just look at the permaculture advice sites.  We only eat some foods more than others out of convention.  Terminator seeds would affect wheat, other cereals and rice but not for example potatoes, nuts, 'wild' roots and fruit.  There are hundreds of edible plants which we do not currently use as mainstream food and those minor crops could become major food sources if necessary. 

What worries me more is the invisible danger of crossing with GMOs.  For example, I would find it very hard to grow sweetcorn with fields of GM corn all around me, beetroot or any of the other wind pollinated plants.  Well actually there is a dodge that gardeners in the USA employ - they grow blue sweetcorn.  With sweetcorn you can see cross pollination.  If the corn grown commercially is all yellow, gardeners simply need to remove yellow kernels from their blue cobs. 

And this is why terminator seeds worry me less than GM seeds.  And why I don't believe these companies can ever hold everybody to ransom.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 11:50:10 AM by galina »

Offline squirrel

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Re: Look What Could Come After this Law
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2014, 11:53:23 AM »
terminator seeds are genetically modified seeds that is part of the point.
squirrels are often out their trees but never short of nuts.

Offline galina

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Re: Look What Could Come After this Law
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2014, 11:59:04 AM »
terminator seeds are genetically modified seeds that is part of the point.

Just to clarify - yes of course they are also GMOs, but they are 'tidy' in the sense that they don't perpetuate themselves or can be perpetuated.  Non terminator GM seeds (which I have called GM in my last post) can cross with related plants (including wild plants)  creating potentially hazardous offspring that will be difficult to eradicate.