Author Topic: Any expert apple identifiers out there?  (Read 433 times)

Offline Big Gee

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Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« on: December 06, 2014, 07:05:46 PM »
Here's some photos of a cooking apple that a friend of HI grows. It's a mighty sized beast. She has three different types of 'cookers' grafted on one tree but she doesn't know what they are (she inherited the tree when she and her husband moved into the house).

This is the most impressive of the three, although the others are very fine looking apples too. I don't recognise it, so before I start hunting on the Orange Pippin site I thought I'd save myself a bit of effort if anyone can recognise it.

If it's a nice one for cooking (we haven't tried it yet) then I'll be around there in February for a bit of scion wood! But I'd like to know what it is first.







 

Offline Poppa Tommo

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2014, 12:11:39 AM »
Well I'll have a look in my apple identifier, but in the meantime, try it out for flavour and texture and report back. If you really rate it after all that then perhaps you would be kind enough to send me a couple of scions with the Bardsey ones in February/March.

You probably mentioned it before, but did you get the one I brought up into the ground?
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Offline Big Gee

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2014, 12:35:56 AM »
Thanks Tommo! I shall get the head cook and bottle washer's opinion of it after she stews it! No problem getting some scion wood for you - I'll collect at least half a dozen off it anyway - assuming it's a good one. The apples look beautiful and they are enormous in size.

The Cornish Gilley Flower is being planted Christmas week - my No. 2 son is coming down from Birkenhead with his little six year old. As a different treat - rather than sweets & toys he suggested the little 'un helps me to plant it and then it will be his tree & I'll send him photos as it grows. Good idea I thought.

Did the Black Hamburg vine & the Blackberry cuttings take? By the way, you know that Bardsey Island is a dual use apple don't you? So you'll be able to munch it and cook it!
 

Offline Poppa Tommo

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2014, 05:07:42 PM »
Excellent, thank you. Just one word of help. Please can you tie an identifying label round each scion...they all look the same with no clothes on.

That's a great way to encourage an interest in growing your own for the grandchildren, I might just borrow that idea.

The grape and the blackberry cuttings are now dormant in the greeenhouse...to be honest, I have got so far behind with going on holday and then all the funeral disruptions that I haven't checked for roots. It's on my list (along with lots of other greenhouse related activities) for this coming week. I'll definitely keep you posted.
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Offline Big Gee

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2014, 09:22:53 PM »
Excellent, thank you. Just one word of help. Please can you tie an identifying label round each scion...they all look the same with no clothes on.

As if I wouldn't  Tommo ::) I'm not that kind of bunny, in fact I'm a bit too much the other way!

Yes I thought it was a good idea - got to be honest it was No2 son that suggested it. The little un loves plums and Josie took up armfuls for him during the summer (another bus pass job)! So hopefully she'll be able to take up apples for him - from "his" tree in a couple of years.

They should have rooted by now Tommo - especially the blackberry they usually burst into roots before you can blink twice!
 

Offline squirrel

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2014, 10:37:28 PM »
I'm thinking of having a go at this grafting game myself so I can perpetuate my apple stock ready for if I move allotments.

Any tips one where to get good root stock for apples, pears, cherries plums and damsons guys?

squirrels are often out their trees but never short of nuts.

Offline Big Gee

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2014, 11:20:34 PM »
I'm thinking of having a go at this grafting game myself so I can perpetuate my apple stock ready for if I move allotments.

Any tips one where to get good root stock for apples, pears, cherries plums and damsons guys?

I have to recommend my old mate Ian Sturrock up in north Wales Fluffy, but you'd have to contact him via the 'contact us' form on his web-site, he doesn't seem to advertise root stocks on his site, but I guess he has some - click on the graphic.



The one that I know has root stocks for sale is Blackmore Nurseries - I've also found them good in the past, very friendly to deal with. Here's a link to their root stocks page:
http://www.blackmoor.co.uk/category.php?keywords=rootstock

I hope that helps!  ThU5:-)
 

Offline Big Gee

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2014, 11:41:00 PM »
How spooky is that? (I'm having a lot of these 'spooky' happenings lately!)  what:-{

I just checked my e-mail straight after I posted below, and amazingly, Ian Sturrock had  sent me a Christmas card by e-mail - WHILST I WAS WRITING THE POST! Odd coincidence that.

It had a link to this silly clip he'd loaded on to YouTube:


<iframe width="640" height="385" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/t9kQke1-qG0?fs=1&start=" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Offline Poppa Tommo

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2014, 08:10:05 AM »
I'm thinking of having a go at this grafting game myself so I can perpetuate my apple stock ready for if I move allotments.

Any tips one where to get good root stock for apples, pears, cherries plums and damsons guys?

A few years ago I joined a local group down here in Devon called 'Orchards Live'

http://www.orchardslive.org.uk/forthcoming_events.htm

Through them I have attended 'Apple Days' 'Scion Days', 'Rescue Pruning' and  a 'Grafting Day'. These are great introducers to the noble art of growing/propagating, not just apples, but, all tree or orchard fruit. I'd try and find a local group up near you if I were you. They are usually run by people like ourselves who like to get their hands in the dirt and who see the value in perpetuating the old country skills.

If you can't find anywhere local to you why don't you check out the courses on the Orchards Live pages and come down for a weekend with us. I'll be happy to go on a days course with you and you save yourself paying for a B&B by staying here.

KT
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Offline Big Gee

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2014, 12:35:02 PM »
That sounds very tempting Tommo. Thank you very much for the kind offer  ThU5:-)

I'll check the site out now in a minute.
 

Offline Big Gee

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2014, 07:13:38 PM »
Mouth watering that site! I've eyed up the grafting course on February the 14th - don't know if I'll pull it off this coming February, we'll see  ThU:-)
 

Offline Big Gee

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2014, 09:11:54 PM »
Fluffy - here's another link for you:

http://www.frankpmatthews.com/advice/fruitrootstocks

Frank Mathews from Tenbury Wells is the big name in root stocks - he supplies a lot of retailers as well - or he can send you a parcel of 500 if you REALLY want to go to town!!  ROL :-))

And here's another video of my mate Ian Sturrock (the cockney Welshman from north Wales - with a bit of help from Sarah) showing how to do a whip & tongue graft:


<iframe width="640" height="385" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/XzfOX5JUbTI?fs=1&start=" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


 

Offline Poppa Tommo

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2014, 08:27:16 AM »
Well, my research, and trust me, I was up at nights trying to find which variety this is. The closest I can get is either Newtons Wonder or, as my friend on the Orchards Live., suggests, Crimson or Red Bramleys.

http://www.mrdarcysheritagefruittrees.com/index.php/catalogue/apple-trees/cooking-apples/late-season/apple-crimson-bramley.html

http://www.keepers-nursery.co.uk/newton-wonder-apple-fruit-trees.aspx

Without having either to cut in half laterally to see how many points the axis has ( 4 or 5 ) for either,  it would be impossible to say, but here is a copy of the email from Jane Scofield of Orchards Live.


My first instinct was that it looks very like a Crimson Bramley (or Red Bramley). Does it cook to a 'fluff' or stay in slices I wonder? They can grow very large and this year the extra sun has made them much redder. The stumpy stalk is very typical.

They are a lovely apple, all the good points of a bramley but slightly sweeter. I had a few, but none left to cut in half to compare I'm afraid.

Does this sound possible
?

I would be interested in your cooking trials because if it is either, put me down for a couple of scions. Wouldn't it be great if you and Squirrel could come to a grafting day down here, stay with us and enjoy some Mid Devon hospitality. ThU32:-)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 08:40:20 AM by King Tommy »
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Offline Big Gee

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2014, 12:51:12 PM »
My life would be so much duller without you around Tommo!  :-)=

The Red Bramley theory sounds very near the mark. Josie messed up the cooking test, because she cooked up a mixture of two varieties, the impressive red one (which may well be a Red Bramley) and another that was slightly different. The result was that some fluffed up but the other remained in chunks  doh:-{

Not to worry she reckons she may still have one or two left so there's another cooking test on the cards - I'll let you know.

The problem is that her friend who has the tree they came from (she adopted it when she moved in) has three different varieties grafted on to the one root stock. That poses a bit of a problem, because a) Josie had a selection of all three given to her - so they were mixed up, and b) in February, when I hope to get some scion wood - will her friend know which is which? As all the wood will look the same at that time of the year!

I'll do my best. If all else fails I'll wait another year (I've got to stop doing this, because the supply of years to play with is diminishing!). When the tree fruits next year I'll mark the branches that produce the big red ones with a few labels. I'll certainly get some scion wood to you.

It would be fantastic to meet up in Devon BUT my only reservation is the distance to drive. My limitations on distances has greatly diminished and I find it increasingly difficult to travel long distances these days, it's becoming a nightmare with my health problems. The only alternative would be to do it in two legs maybe, with a stop over in Cardiff or Newport and then do the second half of the journey the next day. We'll see.
 

Offline Big Gee

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2014, 01:20:25 PM »
I've just been checking out the National Fruit Collection web-site at: http://www.nationalfruitcollection.org.uk/index.php

Here are photos of the Crimson Bramley - very similar BUT notice the Bramley has five points to it's axis where my mystery apple only has 4.

CRIMSON BRAMLEY'S SEEDLING






MYSTERY APPLE


 

Offline Poppa Tommo

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2014, 12:49:50 PM »
Hi Big Fella

Just thought you might find this interesting.

I emailed Matt Ordidge at the National Fruit Collection about the four pointed axis apple you posted in The Shed. I included your photo's in my mail. Anyway here is a forward from him. It's beginning to look like the Red Bramleys after all. Be interesting to see what apples the tree produces next year. I'll post this under 'Orchard' section for others' reference.

Hope you're enjoying the extra seconds if daylight hours these days! We are enjoying a relaxing, non-religious day  with my mother...she is still plugged into that old Xmas thing but like I said to her, I pity the. Christians as they only have one celebration, whilst we have at least 3: The Pagan End of Year, The Solstice and The Altzheimers Repeats!

All the best (give H.I. a hug from me)

Tommo
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Offline Big Gee

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Re: Any expert apple identifiers out there?
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2014, 01:30:38 PM »
Hi Big Fella

Just thought you might find this interesting.

I emailed Matt Ordidge at the National Fruit Collection about the four pointed axis apple you posted in The Shed. I included your photo's in my mail. Anyway here is a forward from him. It's beginning to look like the Red Bramleys after all. Be interesting to see what apples the tree produces next year. I'll post this under 'Orchard' section for others' reference.

Hope you're enjoying the extra seconds if daylight hours these days! We are enjoying a relaxing, non-religious day  with my mother...she is still plugged into that old Xmas thing but like I said to her, I pity the. Christians as they only have one celebration, whilst we have at least 3: The Pagan End of Year, The Solstice and The Altzheimers Repeats!

All the best (give H.I. a hug from me)

Tommo
X

She will be duly hugged in due course Tommo!!  lol(1)
Thanks!

It seems the four pointed axis in the cross section may be a wild goose chase then? Possibly a malformed five pointed axis.

So maybe it IS a Crimson Bramley? It makes it more fun to see how the grafted scions will turn out. I'll get some to you I promise Tommo.

Some say the Crimson Bramley is sweeter than the green seedlings - others say the taste is identical and that the colouring is just a 'sport' of the original Bramley Seedling. It'll be interesting to compare when we get our first fruits!

Have a nice quiet day Tommo - go easy on the Barley wine!!  CW ;-)